DIY-queen with a constant need to create!

She is part of the current WAS exhibition “Who’s Afraid of America?” and portrayed artist in the documentary “Beautiful Losers” shown at CPH:DOX.

Wonderland talked with photo-artist and filmmaker Cheryl Dunn –about having roots in the 1990’s Do-It-Yourself culture, the urge to seek gritty street scenes, and about being drawn towards society´s outsiders and those who without privilege find alternative ways to seek notoriety and have a voice.

You grew up in New Jersey where you early started out as self-taught photography artist. How did you come upon this?
“Well, I started taking pictures as a teenager. My mom was a housewife who used to shoot 8mm films and take pictures all the time, documentation seemed very natural and important to me. Also, I was kind of shy and taking pictures became a great tool as a go between me and the situation I was in – it was very comforting. Photography was the first thing that fully engaged me, where my mind didn’t wander. It was like “Ok, this is what I need to do!” It quickly became clear to me.”

As photographer and filmmaker you became part of the DIY (do-it-yourself) subcultures of skateboarding and graffiti – and you’re one of the portrayed artists in Aaron Rose’s documentary ‘Beautiful Losers’. How did you become part of this world?
“Beautiful Losers is all about this gallery that Aaron Rose started in the Lower East Side in the early 90ies. At that time I was often helping friends I knew, skaters and so, taking pictures of them. I was doing a story for PaperMag and needed someone to paint a mask for my story. I asked Aaron Rose to hook a trade with Phil Frost. We became good friends. And through him I got initiated into the world of graffiti and started documenting all these people I was meeting. Wherever I traveled I documented graff on the streets and pitched stories to magazines that I was shooting for at the time.

You started out as fashion photographer?
“Yeah, but once I entered this world, and started documenting these artists – like Chris Johansson, Mike Mills and Thomas Campbell – I really didn’t go back! Being around real people and getting into documenting the artistic process, was something I was way more into, and it became a big part of my work. To follow these artists and see them create their body of work and then to have this visual representation of it – these documents are invaluable!”

What is it about documenting especially these artists and their artistic process that fascinates you?
“It’s difficult to explain. I’m attracted to people that need to create, that have to communicate in this way, It’s not even a question! I know it for myself. I can’t stop taking pictures! If I see something striking and I don’t take the shot for whatever reason, the moment passed or ethical I thought it was not cool, I’ll often think of that shot I didn’t take, forever! I really like being there during art show installs or when time is running out, this is when artists are stripped down , raw, without filters. It’s as if you can see the intense artistic energy emoting from the art maker to the object being created.

So this DIY culture – it’s all about the need to create?
“yes, it’s all about the need to create! That no matter what your circumstances you have to make stuff. Like Chris Johanson – he was a house painter and a skateboard kid, who basically painted on anything he could find. He found wood from the sight and dumpsters and I’m sure probably stole some brushes too. Because he needed to! It’s not about getting the greatest materials, but to be able to go out and paint on the streets, using whatever you have because you have a strong urge to comment on the state of your world or the state of the government or whatever.

And that’s what’s in common here – that a lot of these artists fall into that?
“Yes, maybe – I mean – If you have limited resources it forces you to learn all the aspects of your work. I would process my film, print it, make books , when I started making films, I learned all of it from shooting to sound to editing I had to be a one man show cause I couldn’t pay anyone to help me. When I was younger a lot of my friends would be going to fancy dinners, but I would go into the dark room and print, using all my money on it, and then I would go drink some water afterwards, you know! I felt psyched that I just spend 4 hours working on all these great pictures, and that was more rewarding to me. The feeling that you have to continue working on making the next piece of work is always there. I’ve not been able to stop yet!
And this element is in many ways, what the skate and graffiti kids have in common. This culture is very do-it-yourself and in the 90ies a lot of these kids traveled around and shared their ideas through art and zine-making. I always thought that way of being connected was super great! People shared this do-it-yourself mentality –its about sharing creative ideas, trading, not about money, kind of a anti-consumer culture.”

You talk about this culture back in the 90ies – since then the subcultures of skating and graffiti have gotten a lot of exposure – how do you feel this culture has changed since then?
“It’s pretty inevitable that when a subculture and people in it start getting exposure, things change. Nothing ever stays underground – ever! Today if something is underground for two weeks, it’s a long time. But knowledge of that just creates the next underground thing. Like when you go see a documentary about some radical art intellectuals in the 1950’s this film might inspire someone 20 years younger to create something, suited for them in their time now. I think it’s all good but some people have issues – people that were New York City street skaters when skating wasn’t a fashion thing – I just think “so what!” Even though it’s kind of fashion now, I think – anything that can inspire people to think more creatively, form their own opinions, search out ideas that are different from what is just thrown right in front of you, is all good.”

To inspire people to think more creatively and have an alternative view on how to have a voice – it seems like your work in general is very focused around this and very drawn towards society’s outsiders or those that tends to reject normalcy?
“Yeah, documentation of artists is only one part of my work. I have photographed different subcultures over the last 20 years - and still do.when putting all my work side by side you can see the thread of these subjects. It’s people that are not coming from privilege, that are using what they have – their talent or their cleverness, or whatever they have – to have a voice. Whether it’s a kid writing graffiti on the wall, a guy boxing, or people protesting against politics and our nation.
Its like, if I have a door to a subject that is encompassing many different aspects of social comment, I want to go into that and explore it thoroughly. I make a statement about what I’ve learned about this mindset of this world – and after that I jump to another world, like I went from documenting bicycle gangs of New York, to now embark on another project with an art school for people with autism. I try to present what I see and in this way, through photography make a comment on society. Like when I photograph homeless dudes, it’s a comment on the state of our situation and the way the government deals with that. But it’s also just to have people acknowledge that we have these kinds of people! People want to look at nice things and sexy girls – and I’m making them look at the other things!”

Your work is in many ways close to photo-journalism – what is your reflections on this as an artist?
“My work is definitely more journalistic looking now than ever before – yet it is likewise still drawing on my experience and background in picture making, compositionally and in regards to color. In this way it’s still a little bit of both – a merge between art type visuals and journalism type visuals. That’s kind of where I fall in. My work is a presentation of what I experience. That’s what my work is about. I lay low, I sneak around and I capture things that tell me a lot about our country. Clearly my work is my interpretation and maybe I have my own agenda – I chose to document the stuff that people don’t pay attention to until it becomes something that effects them! Like now with the financial crisis. The whole world is like “what the fuck is going on over there?” I’ve been trying to document that for a long time, so I’m just like ”You wanna see? Here you go! Shit!”– You don’t have to think its cool, but just to check it out!”

Being a part of Beautiful Losers – tell me about your experience with this?
“I think the film has a good message for young people. Often a young person might say “I can’t make it because I don’t know how! I’m afraid to fuck it up! I don’t have the resources!” I think Beautiful Losers is very inspirational to these people and very awakening on many levels. If for only that reason that a kid gets the experience to see things in a different way – that’s great!”

Beautiful Losers is a look into the world of likeminded outsiders who found common ground as artists part of the DIY-subculture. In Beautiful Losers they use footage from your experience of this?
“Yeah, with Beautiful Losers they shot interviews and compiled footage shot by many different artists as well. Some of it goes 15 years back and they included a bunch of footage from my film Creative Life Story, which is a documentary from a time where a lot of the artists also portrayed in Beautiful Losers were invited to Tokyo to create shows in various places in Tokyo. It was artists like Ed Templeton, Chris Johanson, Stephen Powers and Margaret Killgallen…. It went on for two weeks, and the company behind it just encouraged us to be as crazy as possible – to do things that you would normally get arrested doing in the US!
My initial thought with “Creative Life Store” was to capture all of this stuff, but with the film there also came this comment on consumerism and the whole thing with having to have corporations sponsoring you. Especially as American artist, you don’t have much other choice. The government doesn’t give us shit and the corporations become this thing you have to work with, even though you ethically don’t feel like it.”

And what is your experience with this connection between sponsoring corporations and artists?
“Well, it’s very important for artists to make sure to have the creative control! It’s great when it works out – then it’s a two way street where they can take advantage of you, and you can do the same to them! Some years ago, if there were a brand or some kind of logo connected to an art show , it was just incredible un-cool. But today it’s completely normal and kind of like as if you make a trade. More and more corporations want to be aligned with art and the art world and they reach out to the creative community to come up with ideas. It can be a very good way for young talent to get out there – it’s a good entry. But you have to be careful not to be taken advantage of.”

You’re one of the artists represented at the exhibition at WAS – Wonderland Art Space titled “Who’s Afraid of America?” – Who do you think is afraid of America?
“Who’s afraid of America? – Everyone should be afraid of America if McCain gets in! And everyone has been afraid with George Bush obviously! I mean, look how he did, you know! But there are great people here as well. I’m not anti-America but I’m anti my government (before Nov 4.) because it doesn’t reflect anybody I knows opinion. Hopefully that will change!”

Written by Amanda Bloch